Kajsa Johannsdotter and Anders Peter Olausson: Marriage Produced "Osterlunds". What?

The Origins of "Osterlund" 
Swedish Naming Customs 

Surname Mystery
And additional recreational findings as we find them.

Odd.

Marry into a Swedish-English family, where people talk little about where they came from; from an Irish gang stemming from the multiple roots that make up Ireland (Scots, English, Scots-Irish, Irish, Norse, Canadian and other transplants) where nobody can keep quiet; and find things very odd.  Nobody questions or talks. Much.

How to put together Swedish roots -- recreational only -- where nobody seems to have looked even half-heartedly into it. People have files of photos and scraps, but all is a jumble. So the methodology is to find contrary and peculiar information from other people trying to do the same thing; then throw up hands and come back another day. Here, we took some of the info to the places mentioned in the Jumble in Sweden, Boxholm, and then around Kinnekula, but this mystery remains, among others:  Swedish naming customs. They don't pan out here. *

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I.  The Mystery of Kajsa Johannsdotter 1834-1922. And her marriage to Anders Peter Olausson 1836-1878. That marriage produced children somehow with the last name of Osterlund. Go, Sherlock.  According to our understanding, the surname of the children would be Andersson for the boys (Anders' son) and Andersdotter for the girls (Anders' daughter).  What is wrong with the name Anderson or Andersson?  Even Ellis Island, if they came in that way, would get that straight. They came over in bits and pieces also.  Did the first one over simply change the family name?

There is a town of Lund - a city, north of Malmo, Skane district - see ://www.planetware.com/sweden/lund-s-skn-lund.htm - but "east Lund" as "oster lund" might be, seems to have no connection. And the custom is parentage, not geography for roots.


So: Is this the answer instead:  somewhere between Kalmar and Vaxjo?

Osterlund was left behind. Swedish roadside.

A.  Kajsa Johannsdotter and Anders Peter Olausson

• Kajsa would be my husband's great-grandmother. Check. 
• She came from Sweden to live with his grandparents, Anna Osterlund Widing and her husband Philip Widing in Philadelphia. Check.

• Kajsa's husband was Anders Peter Olausson 1836-1878.  Check. 
• They had how many children? Go here, ://records.ancestry.com/Anders_Peter_Olausson_records.ashx?pid=81826105; and find the names of 
• John August Osterlund, 1859-1917, the one who is listed at Ancestry.com
• Sophie Osterlund, 
• Frank Osterlund, 
• Lenus Osterlund,
• Anna M. Widing (BINGO -- the married name of Anna M. Osterlund), 
• Selma Elizabet Osterlund, 
• Carolina Osterlund, 
• Otto William Osterlund, and 
• Josephine Osterlund.

12345678-- 9 children. With those names.  Check.

But how did they get the surname "Osterlund" from a marriage of a Johannsdotter and an Olausson.  That marriage should have produced children with the last name taken from the first name of the father, Anders, or "Anderson". The custom is to give sons the suffix to the father's first name; and daughters the suffix to the father's first name as well. Andersson or Andersdotter. How many s's?  Not sure.

Osterlund wants his children back. Swedish roadside.

 B.  The Osterlund name was carried on.

See John August Osterlund's line.  He married Fredeicka Helena Heise 1865-1932, see  ://records.ancestry.com/John_August_Osterlund_3_Nov_1859_records.ashx?pid=64627360&gss=seo/

• John August Osterlund and Fredeicka had how many children?  Same site, find names 
• Otto W. Osterlund, 
• Frank Andrew Osterlund, 
• Laura O. Osterlund, 
• John Lewis Osterlund, 
• Florence Osterlund, 
• Ester J. Charlton (is that a married name?), and 
• Loyal Y. Osterlund

 123456- 7 children.

Still don't know where the name Osterlund came from. Who was Osterlund? It means eastern grove. Eastern land. Ha. Was there a mystery lover from east Sweden? So Kajsa, after 9 children with that one, whoever, said to Anders Petr (where was he all that time?) let's call them all Osterlund? Good joke, and the stern firm picture we have of Kajsa would not brook any monkey business.

Kajsa Johannsdotter's great-great-grandson Dan Widing welcomes Osterlund. Swedish roadside.

Otto W, and Frank. Named after their uncles, ok. Reinforces same line here.

C.  My husband's line is from Anna M. (Osterlund) Widing and we can take it from there.

But we still want to know where this Osterlund monicker came from.  John August's descendants:  call me. There must be an answer. And if you want to know about this branch, here we are. Why are you running?

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*  We think we have found out. 

Looking back at this issue of naming in families, and this is an update January 31, 2011, the New York Times may have our answer to why names don't fit the traditional:  See http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/world/europe/01stockholm.html/.  The article notes that for the last 100 years or so, people just got tired of the same names, everybody's ending with -son or -dotter -- leading to multiple s's for ssome. So they chose another.  It may be from the family tree, or just something nice -- thus we seem to have what would have been Anderssons, becoming Osterlund when they arrived in the United States, perhaps even in Sweden.  Thank you, New York Times/

We enjoyed our hunt here, so will keep it just for that. Here is the older post, Osterlund intact, just in case our situation is not just an arbitrary renaming at all.

A relative Britsie Murray, believes that Kajsa Johannsdotter remarried after the death of Anders Petr Olausson's death, and she and the children took the name of the new husband, Osterlund, but we have no paper trail of that yet.

Anna Matilda Osterlund Widing:  Various death notices, including as to the Sjostrom branch -- for whoever may be interested.

Viking Culture - Trelleborgs, Harald Bluetooth, Engineering. Early Roots

 The Kalmar Union, see ://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/smorgasbord/society/history/kalmar-union.html/ and other periods in history show commonalities among Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and also Finland and Estonia.  Go back further in the Dark Ages and find where those nations influenced others, and see Sweden heading "east" and "south" into Russia, the Black Sea, Byzantium, even as far as Baghdad.  From that, it is not a leap to find some credence in later claims that the 14th century Battle of Kosovo included Serbs with Norse blood, see ://www.worldology.com/Europe/deeper_dark_ages.htm/.  Click on the time periods.  This is a recreational sidelight, intended only to show how the Swedish adventurers, raiders, traders, settlers, often eclipsed in historical accounts by the Norse and Danes reacting to Charlemagne and Christian incursions by raiding Christian sites and areas.  Theories, theories.

 Kosovo:  Refresh your recollection.  See Kosovo, 1389 Battle and video listed there.

More solid:  The Vikings, A History, by Robert Ferguson, 2009 Penguin Group, is the only Tome we have touched as to bona fide research on Viking culture, and his views may be rebutted elsewhere, but so far we learn this as to trelleborgs: see the Trelleborg at Slagelse at Slagelse, DK, Viking Construction, Thatch, Trelleborg  

1. PP 209-213 or so: There are a series of these ring forts, moats around outer wells, called trelleborgs across Denmark, Norway and Sweden, all built in the same era by one Harald Bluetooth who is now supposedly buried in a column at the Cathedral in Roskilde DK.

Trelleborg as a word can derive possibly from the wooden staves that support the earthen walls inside, or from a "town of slaves" that was part of a treaty for settlements along the Volkhov (Volga?) known as "Kholopij gorodok", and later Latiized as Drelleborch.

Each follows a perfectly circular pattern, suggesting engineering measurement skill, and a similar vision; gates at the cardinal points connected by perfectly intersecting roads. Imagine the four quarter-circles formed by that construction each with an identical huge square building with bowed long-house walls.

Beyond the walls came other similar buildings, perhaps a cemetery. Slagelse in Denmark was built in about 980-81 (sounds pretty precise) and the tree rings of other forts point to about the same time, or later years of Harald Bluetooth's reign. Archeology: find trading and traded items, including from the East, jewelry, coin, silver, bronze, evidence of ship repair at some trelleborgs.

2.  Odd part: no evidence of repair or upkeep. How could that be if, as is thought, the trelleborgs were supposed to be sites for training camps and garrisons. With no repairs, the structures could be expected to last some 5 years, see page 211. "Nonce constructions"?

Nonce -- just put up for a particular purpose, see ://www.answers.com/topic/nonce-word/ And with laws for membership and internally applicable ethics, and fearlessness in conduct, see Jomsvikings page 213.

Sense or nonce-sense?

3.  There is also a Harald Bluetooth feat of engineering from the same time at Denmark, near Velje - a vast bridge at 760 meters long. That's nearly half a mile: precisely 2493.438320209974 feet, says calculateme.com. And some 18 feet wide. Who says the Viking era was rude and crude? We avoid what doesnt' fit the stereotype, is that so. This bridge enabled an overland "motorway" -- rapid access, north and south.

With the bridge and the trelleborgs, was Harald able to defend against any threatened invasions at the coasts, and regain territory lost in 973 to the German tribes, Franks, especially one Otto, in southern Jutland, and then did not need them any more? See page 212.

4.  Harald Bluetooth -- that would be Blatann in Scandinavia at the time, but would you buy a form of wireless communication called "Blatann". No. Bluetooth is more marketable.

Trolle Ljungby Slott, Manor House and the Trolls

Kristianstad Municipality, after visiting Ystad.

Castles and manor houses:  Pick and choose. No way to see them all. See this site for a fine showing like a gallery, of the great castles, at ://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1061341/

1. Trolle Ljungby or Trolle Ljunghy Slott. This is a gem -- a Renaissance manor house.  Its oldest parts date from 1525,

Trolle Ljungby Slott, Sweden (Manor House)

The name: There was an influential family named Trolle, see their burial chapel in Roskilde, Denmark.  Is the same family?

This castle comes with tales of the horn and pipe kept here.  Visit here and learn wonders.

Down the road is a troll stone, a huge boulder right next to a building by the road that suddenly is just there, but in a traffic area -- hard to stop.  This fits with the old tale of the horn and pipe kept at the castle-manor house here.

The horn and pipe were supposedly stolen from the trolls who lived at the stone, but the trolls was not to be found and the horn and pipe were not on display when we were there.  See ://www.travelgatesweden.se/2006/05/26/hunting-the-troll-stone/

See the horn and pipe illustrated at ://nordicculturespot.blogspot.com/2009/09/ljungby-horn-and-pipe.html/ --  a gilded cornucopia-type drinking horn, with little foot to set it down.

Here is the tale:  a paltry summation but the story must live on.  The image of the golden horn also recurs in museums and castles in Sweden, so get acquainted here.

• Bring me news of the revelry down the road, said the lovely Lady Cissela of the castle. So off one young swain went, and found trolls, by and under the stone, and gold, and revelry. Go ahead, said a troll lady to one young man in the tale, drink first from the horn and blow three times on the pipe, and whispered something. But the young man tossed the horn's contents over his shoulder and took off with the horn and the pipe, both. The trolls pursued, and asked the lovely Cissela lady in the castle to see that the articles were returned and then all would prosper; or bad things would happen, and sure enough the young man and his horse were dead in three days. But where the horn? Fast forward to 1645 and the horn was causing such disturbance that its owner decided to return it as had been asked, but return it to the castle, not the trolls.Time passed, a priest came into possession of it, and then others; trolls requested return, there were sightings and descriptions of the troll folk, and finally this story was written down in 1692. Hear and believe.

2.  Navigating issues.  The DK travel series has usually been helpful, but less so in Sweden. The tour guide includes tantalizing read-bitess to lure us off the road, but not enough direction for that country where to go. At least include a GPS street number or other address.

Sweden does not help.  It is as though they do not expect tourists, so skip the signs.  Motorways gloss right by. Get off the motorway, and have no idea where to go. Other countries have little signs. Not here.

3.  The lost castle.  For example, Backaskog Slott, or Backaskog Castle. There is an area of that name, but the castle itself is substantially north of that, and on an isthmus, and no way to get there because it is not on the maps we had.  Go into a supermarket and get an idea, but they, too, sent us to the township.

Ystad - Cloister Garden, Preserved Homes,

Gamla Stan, the old town, still boasts hundreds of historic half-timbered houses, some 300 scattered, and many on Ostergatan (gatan means "street" we concluded). Some sag here, but are buttressed up there, and look well-preserved. The oldest is said to date from 1630, but most are 1700's says an old Frommer.

Half-timber house, Ystad, Sweden

Prince Carl lived here, the Crown Prince - he was born in 1826, and stayed until he became king in 1859.  He is better known as King Charles XV.

Ystad, Sweden: Museum, Crown Prince Carl (crowned  King Charles XV in 1856)

Crown Prince Carl, residence as a child, Ystad, Sweden

St. Maria's Church.  This was a cloister until the 16th Century, then came the Reformation. 

St. Maria's Church, Ystad, Sweden

Many buildings have the stair-step roof, but they vary in pitch, how many steps up, and the design of windows and patterns below.  This one, to the right of the Church, is not the Grayfriars' Monastery, but also looks too small to be the Latin School, or the Brahehuset. Could be the Latin School.

Cloister Garden, St. Maria's Church, Ystad, Sweden

Birdbath indentation, Cloister Garden seating, St. Maria's Church, Ystad, Sweden

Ystad - Canal, pastries, half-timber, facade faces, brickwork

Ystad


Off the ferry at Trelleborg, and Ystad is only 30-40 miles east, on the coast.

Ystad, canal, Sweden

For a first pastry, choose one where you can get a car-picnic sandwich at the same time, for later. A recurrent sandwich theme, all open-faced, is a large hunk of great bread beneath, lettuce, tomato, them come the large shrimp just spilling over, and cucumber, etc etc. 

Ystad, pastries and open-faced sandwiches (not a smorgasbrod)

Be sure to read at least one Henning Mankell mystery before arriving.
Ystad's residential and commercial streets: Haunts of Detective Kurt Wallander, mystery series by Henning Mankell. 

Ystad residence, half-timber, angled brick fill, Sweden

This may look like the same house (no wonder you can't find the car), but look closer.  There are little faces up there, above the windows on this one. It is never enough to remember half-timber house on corner, because too many are. And the colors of the brickwork and half-timber -- remember those as well.

Ystad corner house. Half-timber.

Can't see them yet? Get closer.

Ystad house, faces along the coursework above and between the windows, half-timber

The faces go all around the house.  Then  find the intricate doorway.

More faces on the wall, and by the doorway, Ystad house

Ta-Da! Worth waiting for. Each one different.

Ystad, surprised window divider face, Sweden

Oh, no!  It's Wallander! He found us out!

Ystad, horrified window-divider face, Sweden

The streets combine commercial with residential still. This small slaughterhouse appears abandoned for that purpose, though

Facade, old butchery, stock entryway below, Ystad, Sweden

Now, where was the car?

Trelleborg - Viking Reconstruction on old Fortification Site

Trelleborg Town:  The Ferry and the Sights
History of "Trelleborg" the ring fort - Origins, Purpose

THE FERRY.  Trelleborg, Sweden.  This is known as the car and truck ferry-stop from Germany and other places.  From Rostock, Germany, to Trelleborg is an overnight trip, with loading in Germany about 11:00 PM.  Get your dinner on board, get a cabin for a shower and some sleep, and docking is about 6AM.  Be sure to say aloud to yourself and write down the ferry level where your car is parked.  Ferries that cross the Baltic Sea are big - six levels for vehicles and they all look alike.

Six AM - even 7 AM That is too early for the sights, but this Viking garrison is open for walking about even if the museum is not. 

The Trelleborg at Trelleborg, Sweden

THE SIGHTS.  A trelleborg signifies the old Viking fortification pattern of a raised center area for defense, with a surrounding ring of structures for other purposes.  It is also the name of cities or towns where there is a trelleborg. There is Trelleborg, Denmark; Trelleborg, Sweden (here), and probably more.   This is the reconstructed Viking village in Trelleborg.  Lots of buildings, a surrounding wooden fortification.  These were built during the reign of Harald Bluetooth, see Bogomilia, Harald Bluetooth, and it is believed that they were only in use for some 5 years, as a defense against Otto the Great and his incursions as Holy Roman Emperor, from Germany.  After Charlemagne's sons failed to keep the Empire together, finally Otto filled in -- and carried on, opposed by Harald and others who liked their own ways, could convert and have no problem reconverting back when the pressure was off. Forcing conversions does that. Is that so?

Trelleborg, Sweden. Reconstructed Viking entryway, house.

How tall were Vikings?  Their doorways are short.

Trelleborgs across Denmark, Sweden and Norway  could have all been constructed at the same time, during the reign of Harald Bluetooth, particularly 973 AD plus or minus, see the theory from The Vikings, A History, by Robert Ferguson, our summary at

A trelleborg is not a place for families. Wives managed their own affairs in the towns when the fighting men were off following their own star, and raised the children.  Ferguson suggests that the garrisons were lived in by the warriors for training and bonding, and could leave for limited days, then return.  The era of trelleborgs, says Ferguson, was also short -- once the disputed southern Jutland had been regained, and the German tribes under Otto had been repelled.

Harald had converted to Christianity in about 966, but was pushed out of power by his son, Sven (Sven Fork-beard?) exiled to Poland, probably, and dropped Christianity at his death, so they say; and he was never canonized, lending support to the claim.  He did, however, order the Danes to become Christian, and many did. 

Viking structures, as in other areas where winters are cold (Romania, Celtic cultures, some stone age structures built down into rock) are constructed often with sunken floors, for warmth.  Here is a Viking forge area.  The depth is not more than a foot or two.

Trelleborg, Sweden; forge, sunken floor

People in vehicles and bikes are careful of the chickens.  We saw none scrambled.

Trelleborg, Sweden; walking breakfast

We like to get going after landing, so did not take a south-route to a Viking stone ship site - there are others on the way.  A stone ship is a burial or memorial site where the outline of a full viking ship is set with spaced standing stones.

Anglo-Saxon Runes: Ingwaz moves. Widing: Meanings - Joy on an icy day. Hero! Or: Woods. Despair. Gift! Mix and Match.

NG TO ING
The Ingwaz. 

Runes: Norse, Saxon and Anglo-Saxon Connections.
Found, perhaps: Confirmation of a Family Tale.
Rune forms for WIDING 

From Futhark to Futhork

I.  Summary:

Tale.  Roots in Runes. We may have found, after all this, at least a speculative bit of confirmation in old runic forms, letter symbols, of an old family story: someone was on a hunt with the King, and saved the King when the King was attacked by a bear.  Just in time! Your name will be Widing, supposedly said our grateful royal.

Problems. Now, how do you prove any of that.  First, we speculate and pass the story around each Thanksgiving with toasts.  Second, we follow any lead we find.  Third, we let something percolate, and it did.

Recourse. We looked at the charts of Old Futhark Runes (earliest Old Norse); then found connections between Saxon runes (some of them invaded Jolly Olde Englande in the 400's, the rest stayed in northern Germany to fight against Charlemagne 500 years later, and got resettled and beaten, finally) and the Norse Runes.  The Old Futhark had an "ng" or "ing" cluster that disappeared in later Younger Futhark; but the ng or ing is found in the Anglo-Saxon runes.  So we followed that.

Eureka! We found a chart of the meanings of the Anglo-Saxon rune forms, not just the name of the letter and its pronunciation.  And WIDING - adds up to any of these, WID as a totality=Wood (perhaps as in Saxon King Widukind, 9th C?); or put the letters separately, and get Joy Ice Day.  Then go to ING.  As a totality, it means hero, one who surpasses. References to a god, relationship with a king (there is a Swedish King Inge 11th C).  Put the letters separately, and you get either N for despair, distress, need; and G for gift.

Joy on an icy day. Hero!  
Or, In the woods, distress and need; Gift!

The story fits either way - an event for being grateful, a hero, a gift. Or fun to consider.

II.  Details.

In the oldest written letter forms for the Norse, Elder Futhark, there is an "ng" form, the "ingwaz". See Widing surname in Runes.  The hobby interest, as well as academic, leads to real or imagined ancestry, geneology, for those with The Name.

Figure 1

Ingwaz in Widing, NG as one symbol, Norse Elder Futhark (we think)

Figure 2

No ingwaz in Widing, separate N+G as two symbols, Norse Elder Futhark (we think)

ADD ANGLO-SAXON RUNES, THE FUTHORK, and find meanings for each symbol.

Now we find that, in addition to the Elder Futhark forms and the Younger Futhark forms, in between comes the Anglo-Saxon Runes, called the Futhork, see ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_runes. That site shows charts and simple explanations.

Wikipedia is only a starting point for anything: a guide. We went from there to the details at ://www.runestones.com/RuneMeaning.htm/ But that gave so much information that we went back to the simple chart at Wikipedia.  On we go.  See runestones at ://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Rune_stone

That is interesting, because in the later form of Norse Futhark, Younger Futhark, there is no longer an ng.  There are other differences, with combined letters and forms.  The missing NG is not the only one. Where did the nice ingwaz go?

But there does appear an Ing in Saxon, carrying over to the Anglo-Saxon.

1.  THE INGWAZ NG

What is the ng. It is known as the "ingwaz".   That was not the main topic in the Runes post here, but looks interesting. See overview of this rune with its disputed origins at ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngvi/  That site also explains more about the Futhark rune designations, in which the NG appears.

The ING is a masculine form from Germanic and Norse mythology, and the old Germanic Ingwaz could mean "he who is foremost". Ing: also a Norse and Germanic fertility god, Yngvi Freyr, see  http://folklore-mythology.blogspot.com/2008/07/norse-mythology.html/  Fertility, but also agriculture, weather, see ://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Ing

Light Dawns over Futhark and Futhork Runes: Widing unlocked

In Saxon runes:  the ING means "hero." 

That fits "he who is foremost." See the big chart at ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_runes#Letters/  The ingwaz ING has a different shape, however, in the Anglo-Saxon Rune chart.  It is one symbol made of two X's on top of each other, double X standing up, like on shoulders. 

Now we are getting somewhere.  See Anglo-Saxon runes at ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_runes/ complete with charts, transliterations and meanings of the specific forms.  Yes - ing as hero.  Just like we tell ourselves at Thanksgiving.

Follow the naming of the all the runes here in Widing, using the Anglo-Saxon word meanings for each letter form:

W - That is the pointy P shape.  It is called "wynn" and means "joy" 

I   - That is the straight line we are familiar with.  It is called "is" and means "ice"

D  - That is the sideways pointy hourglass, on its side. It is called "daeg" and means "day."

I and the

NG - Those together comprise the ingwaz.  It is called  "ing" and means "hero"

Here are the Anglo-Saxon Runes - The Futhork - for Widing, we hope


Figure 3.

ING in Widing, appearing in Anglo-Saxon Runes (Futhork) but as a different double-X symbol, not as at the Futhark Ingwaz at Figure 1 (a diamond shape) here

So:  Joy on an icy day - Hero!

That is simplistic, given all the detail and philosophy at the rune sites for Experts; but the point of similarity to story is there.

What if we take out the Ing, as one symbol, and substitute the two forms - one for N and one for G


N - An n on its own is a straight line with a diagonal cross bar tilting upper left to lower right, as in the Elder Futhark.  It is called "nyd" and means "need, distress".


G - A g on its own is an X shape, and called "gyfu".  It means "gift"


Figure 4

So:  Joy on an icy day - Distress.  Gift!

Get fancy.  If we take the Wid and apply to its root the woods or forest or tree idea, with forest-dwellers specifically mentioned in the Magnus the Barefoot saga where Inge etc., that fits as well.  A woodsy fellow as the WID, not the separate joy icy day.

Woodsy fellow Hero.

Or referring to King Wid-ukind, a Saxon.

Maybe that's as fur as we kin go.  You'd think the clan I married into would be pleased and interested in all this about finding out who they are, but so far, I am the only enthusiast. Wait until Thanksgiving this year. 

Splendid. The name Widing is a story in its own letter forms. Add the other meanings of the ING, friend of ___, choose your King - Swedish King Inge, Saxon King Widukind, does it matter? We have ourselves a hero.
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FN 1.  Recheck use of the word elements as first names or surnames.

• ING  Here is ING:  at ://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Ing/  This source says that the Norse NG is the same as the Germanic INGWAZ - clearly close connections over time between the Norse and the Germanics, including Saxons.  The root means "progenitor, ancestor, leader."  See Nordicnames.  There are many variations on it, including Inge, the name of the Swedish King we were and are interested in.  You can see the countries where a variation of the Ing appears.

Ing and its variations does not appear as a mythological name, in the list at ://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Mythology_Names/  But at this site it does:  Inge as a Norse fertility god, at ://skandland.com/nametbl-h-j.htm

Ing also does not appear as a "patronymic" where a culture appends a word for son of or daughter of to a name.  Same site, different page, at ://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Surnames

• WID.  Links to Wid? --First names:  Only one w in Swedish, Wido (Germanic variant is Wito?), no derivation given.  

But there are lots of V's.  Closest may be Vidar (recent - say 1800's, not an old name; but look at this site: ://www.behindthename.com/nmc/sca-myth.php/ where Vidar may derive from Vid, forest, and ar, warrior, forest warrior.  That fits our story), Vide (more of these, see http://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Vide), Vida.

Names containing Wid.

More on Vithar and Vitthar (with 2 r's, son of Odin) - also forest warrior - in Norse at ://www.names-meanings.net/names/male-norse/1/  Perhaps the bestowed name kept the first part, the forest, and changed the "warrior" to the Ing for friend of Inge, or hero.

Here, Vidar is the forest warrior but also a son of Odin, at ://skandland.com/nametbl-t-o.htm. He will avenge his father's death at the end of the world, that site saying that the roots of Vidar ar unclear, but we have found connections elsewhere to forest warrior, see ://folklore-mythology.blogspot.com/2008/07/norse-mythology.html

More: Find more on Frey, Odin, Runes discussion, Vidarr and the Wild Hunt:  see The Norse Gods at ://paganandproudofit.com/norse.html 

• Link to god FREYR.

Look up YNGVI, a form of the ingwaz (the older theonym "Ing") and may be an older form of the name of the god, Freyr. See ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngvi/  Always vet Wikipedia, but this is a sane starting point in a confusing area.

Yngvi:  old Norse cognate (?) of Ing, and an alternate for the name of the god, Freyr.  This site says that Yngvi-Freyr was seen as the ancestor of the Swedish royal family.  There. Royalty. See ://www.behindthename.com/name/yngvi

Old Norse Yngvi or Yngvin can mean "worshiper or friend of Ing" -- does that bring us back to the fellow who saved King Inge as then being bestowed with a name that meant he was thereafter a friend of Inge? 

That theonym Ing (says the site) is Proto-Germanic from Inguz. In Old Norse, look for it in stories like Ingvifreyr, or Ingunafreyr.  Have to look those up.

Yngve, then Yngvin - combination of the Yng meaning a Norse god, and the Vin, meaning "win" or friend. See ://skandland.com/nametbl-t-o.htm 

• YNGLING - the name of a dynasty, very old, in Scandinavia, see ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngvi/.  Yngling:  descendant of Frey (god), see ://www.names-meanings.net/names/male-norse/1

All this just for recreation, as well as history.  Widing ancestry, Widing geneology. More important is the process and learning history.


III.  Next.

We have no family stories about another family Viking, Skarf, of the Burnt Njall Saga, Iceland, but looking up those Runes in the Old Norse is next.  It would not be Ango-Saxon, however,  We will start with the Elder Futhark and go see what Iceland did. Maybe the bones of a story emerge; or maybe we'll just make one up.

Surname, Widing - Wid. Did a "Wid" of Saxon Origin Have Legs? Become Part of Anglo-Saxon?

What's with the Wid word-root.
Looking for Saxon as well as Norse Origin.

Widing- Widingh (new variation)

The Widinga Saga

I.  Did the segment Wid travel with the Saxon Invaders into England, and become part of Anglo Saxon, Old English?

II.  Did the Wid travel with the Saxons in their Diaspora, Resettlements, into other parts of Germany, Scandinavia 

Meet Johannes Widingh, 1376 Will, Hamburg -is the H for Hof or Farm?

And Sven Widingh, Sweden 1700's - farm

And Olaf Widing,  Sweden 1800's - farm

Looking for the Wid. Whither the Wid.

I.  Did the Wid travel with the Saxon Invaders into England,

And Become part of Anglo Saxon, Old English?

"Wid" as a word root, in the surname Widing, is Norse according to some sources; but the Norse and the Saxons dealt and lived extensively among each other.  Finding the meaning of wid in its migration from Norse-Saxon broad category, to Anglo-Saxon. has to be the last of the possibilities, or is it? Norse and Germanic. Two groups, but with similarities.

Germanics and Norse on the move. Here we look at linguistics, in the group of Saxons who remained on the mainland of Europe (see Saxon King Widukind. He fought Charlemagne in the 900's.

Then look at those linguistics among the group of Saxons who earlier raided and finally invaded the British Isles in about 410 AD, see ://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/Invaders.htm/.  They became the Anglo Saxons by doing the happy dance with the Angles who arrived about 430 with the Jutes and each took over different areas of England.


There was an affinity. The Angles were also Germanic, and came from southeastern Jutland, now Denmark; and the Jutes also came from Jutland. Note that the Saxons were already there in England, and had an inroad well ahead of time - before their big invasion period - as mercenaries for the Romans.


The Norse Vikings arrived and raided beginning in about 793 AD. Run! There were periods of peace and war, then the Danes conquered England in 1000 or so. Etc. See the History UK site. Languages. Norse. Germanic Angle and Saxon. A bloody free-for-all.

Maps of migrations, invasions. Words follow.

So:  Anglo-Saxons.  What of the Wid did they bring with them, that became Old English, old Anglo-Saxon English. Can Beowulf help, as a Norse tale (Danish) recorded in Jolly Olde Englande?  Some originate the Geats, the tribe of Beowulf, in southern Sweden, but much of southern Sweden was ruled by Danes for many centuries.  See http://historymedren.about.com/od/beowulf/p/beowulf.htm

Look at the Saxon connection, thinking of Widukind the Saxon King, and his dealings and his living with the Norse, the Danes; and his people moving into those areas, or being relocated by Charlemagne as entire population groups.

• Spells. Incantations. 
• The Wid also appears in Anglo-Saxon charms, Old English, a site with modern translation of these charms for healing and warding off evil at ://www2.hawaii.edu/~kjolly/unc.htm/  We need the Old Norse, however, to get beyond "wid gedrif" and "wid poccas" and another wid that is unreachable because it is a paid site and it stops mid-phrase. The search paragraph that stops refers to an Old Norse Runic charm book, at://brepols.metapress.com/content/654334h18v3247n1/  We do see that gedrif means to drive, in past participle in an Old English grammar text - what? See ://www.archive.org/stream/oldenglishgramma00smituoft/oldenglishgramma00smituoft_djvu.txt

• Wide. The Wid in Anglo-Saxon is an adjective meaning wide, or "of a certain width". See the Bosworth-Toller Anglo Saxon Dictionary at ://bosworth.ff.cuni.cz/finder/3/wid/. look up "wid" as part of other words at the home search page, ://bosworth.ff.cuni.cz/; and find reference to far and wide, broadly, widely known, "wide-feorh" and similars for long life.

Widinga Theory. Saxon meets Angle?

• Swedish records. The Saxon connection to the Norse appears in several ways,  Stockholm has Anglo Saxon manuscripts, and microfiche, and where did they come from, if not the Danes or northern German:  
• Boundaries were fluid. Swedish-linguistic folk moved about
• The location of documents is not conclusive.  It could be incidental - just the usual scholarship and storage unrelated to origin. Other cities also have Anglo Saxon materials, see http://mendota.english.wisc.edu/~ASMMF/msslist.htm 
• How to vet sites for self-serving, finding connections desired rather than actual, see http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id43.html.  Is it reliable or justifying claimed roots?

• Old English Anglo Saxon language Beowulf, with Beowulf as Danish [or the Swedish side of Danish rule]. 
• The Saxon connection to the Norse also appears in the travels of the Norse Beowulf (see electronic Beowulf at ://www.uky.edu/~kiernan/eBeowulf/main.htm) that ended up in Anglo Saxon England and was recorded there (is that so?). There appear to be connections between mainland Norse-types and Saxons and those Saxons who became the Anglo-Saxons in the British Isles. More Beowulves: in hypertext, at ://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~beowulf/; and http://www.heorot.dk/beowulf-on-steorarume_front-page.html/   
• Beowulf the Geat.  Could that be a group that migrated from Thracia, known as the Getae, see Sigge Fridulfsson's lore.  Books are dedicated to finding such origins, see sample at Taylor and Frances Online at  http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03468758608579081

•  A real linguistic analysis of Beowulf for purposes of tying in Old Norse, and mainland Saxon, and British Isles, Anglo-Saxon is beyond us here. It is a Norse tale, recorded in Ye Olde Englande. You do it. Many translations at one site, at ://www.beowulftranslations.net/

Beowulf as a name may mean bee-wolf, or bear, see ://www.archive.org/stream/oldenglishgramma00smituoft/oldenglishgramma00smituoft_djvu.txt/ (search for Beowulf). Yes! Back to the Widing bear story. Norse and bears: a recurrent topic, and a stretch to connect with anything much.

• Wid and woods:  Linguistics. The Anglo Saxon wipig or wibig (think of that middle letter in font as a b, with the tail continuing down, making also a p with a b on top - we will call the letter a bip) is an Anglo Saxon name for tree or shrub, see ://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/STELLA/ihsl/projects/ASPNS/Lstnam.htm/.  There is also a plant or a flower, wi bip obend, or wi bip owinde.  Pay for this site (we didn't) to get an Old English Dictionary, at ://www.doe.utoronto.ca/

• Wid and wide.  In addition to wood or forest, Norse uses wid for something that means a descriptive measure, wide: see http://www.archive.org/stream/oldenglishgramma00smituoft/oldenglishgramma00smituoft_djvu.txt/ at page 103:  Find the widsse, or wide sea? Norway Skager Rack?
  

"Ohthere made two voyages. Sailing first northward along the western 
coast of Norway, he rounded the North Cape, passed into the White Sea, 
and entered the Dwina River (an niicel ea) . On his second voyage he 
sailed southward along the western coast of Norway, entered the Skager 
Rack (widsse), passed through the Cattegat, and anchored at the Danish 
port of Haddeby (set Hsejjum), modern Schleswig."

Aha.  Widse does mean wide, in the sense of "open sea".  Find this navigator, Ohthere, or Orosius, who served Saxon King Alfred (Olde Englande) (is that so?) and his sailings at ://ycdl4.yukoncollege.yk.ca/~agraham//nost202/ottar.htm/ We underestimate the extent of old travelings.

Do a "find" for the root "wid" at that Old English Grammar site and come up with many words with it. There is a glossary that defines many.  It takes an expert to figure it all out, but we will start stoutly:

Examples are not consistent with one meaning.  There are widre (farther, more widely, as a comparative to wide),  cwidegiedda (cwidegiedd means word), larcwidum (precept,, instruction), inwid-sorge (means sorrow caused by an enemy), widre gwindan, gilp wide-Geates (the Geats?) gulp here come the wide Geats?  no, gilp- c wide means boasting speech (note that is masculine), hwider means whither.

Only those two in the list, widre and hwider connect to wide, or some description of size, extent.

Then go on to wid in constructing conjunctions, adverbs, etc.

Conclusion:  The Wid word-root did have legs. It became words meaning wide, among other meanings (the fun part here is that King Inge of Sweden in his battles with the Norse was known as a wide, bottomy person),  Some connection with wood (or woods, as in the reference to trees and shrubs in the plants names) remains. The wid makes sense in our continuing use of wide as in far and wide, a measurement that way.

Back to Big King Inge who took a long time to get on his horse. Far more fun.

Wid as Saxon, Wid as Anglo-Saxon, Wid as Norse. Could be worse.

Anglo-Saxon wid.

Add that to the Saxon wid.

And the Norse wid.

What's wrong wid dat?
 ..................................................................................................

II.  Did the Wid travel with the Saxons in their Diaspora, Forced Resettlements,

into other parts of Germany --  Prussia, Scandinavia, even Romania

Meet Johannes Widingh, 1376 Will, Hamburg -is the H for Hof or Farm?

And Sven Widingh, Sweden 1700's - farm

And Olaf Widing,  Sweden 1800's - farm

See at Germany Road Ways: Prussia, Saxony, Saxon Diaspora.

If the "h" at the end of Widing in Widingh stood for "hof" - that means a variety of dignified things:  farm, court including holding court, courtyard, inn. See://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Hof  Also a city in Bavaria, see ://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hof/  Hof family - crest does mean court, see http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/hof-family-crest.htm.

Drop the "H" when the designation is no longer needed, and you have Widing with no H.  Is that so? Ten points for effort. Widinghof.

Surname, Widing - King Inge. Is Widing Now the Name Bestowed: from Wid the Wood; Plus Inge the King

King Inge of Sweden in 1000 AD

Is Inge the King,
that rewarded the Knave,
that killed the Bear,
that Attacked the King, 
and bestowed the name of Widing?

Roots of Widing
The Widinga Saga
King Inge

Curiosity about roots:  Searching for NG or ING in the name Widing, the name bestowed (according to family tall tale) upon the fellow who saved the king's life in an old hunt, so they say.  We found us a King.  Stop there.

King Inge:  He was King of Sweden 1079-1084 (co with another); and King of Gothenland 1084-1088; and King of Sweden 1088-1105. Story so far:

• Widings of this family twig harbor a tale about some poor knave who managed to save the King who was attacked by a bear during a hunt in the woods.  In gratitude, the King gave him the name "Widing".  Spellings change, particularly if this was an oral tradition to begin with, or runes, or other linguisic gymnastics and memory problems intervened over a thousand years. 
• We have considered the possibility that the name came from versions of Widukind, the Saxon King whose people, loosely federated tribes apparently, fought Charlemagne and his structured militants for 30 years before being conquered.  Even after that, there was not a consistent peace, and Widukind and allies ducked frequently into friendly Denmark; the boundaries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark and German areas fluctuated. Was he our King in the woods?

Here is the next possibility:

1.  Name elements of Wid and Ing again, but looking closer at each . Or, instead of Wid / Ing, try Wi (small exercise machine?) / and Ding (half a bell). DingDong.

a. Wid - Note that some 92 people in the United States enjoy the distinguished first name, Wid. See ://names.whitepages.com/first/Wid/  Where's Wid? There is a map at the site showing where the names live, state by state.  And then


WID -

a.  First, we found from earlier rune sites that it is so that the element "wid" is "wood" or "woods". That may or may not be so, but we start here with that interpretation.

- ING

b.  Then, a feasible idea for the Ing in the etymology of this surname is with the 11th Century King Inge, a/k/a Ingi/  Inge has surfaced after a number of wild goose chases on the internet, and appears to be a ruler or co-ruler with his brother, on the Swedish throne or thrones, in about 1080 AD.

Enter Wikipedia at ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inge_I_of_Sweden/  Dastardly dealings removing our King from the throne, and then Christian zeal and desire to get the throne back leading our King to burn up people in their houses, but Gotland and Ostergotland, and the Hervarar Saga Ok Heibreks may be helpful connections.  He founded the monastery at Vreta (where?).

He had a nephew, Inge the Younger.

2.  Sources to check further:

• Nordisk Familjebok at  ://runeberg.org/nfbl/0346.html at page 620; that has to be translated.
• Introduction to the Saga of Hervor and Heithrek at ://www.home.ix.netcom.com/~kyamazak/myth/norse/kershaw/Kershaw1s-hervor-and-heithrek.htm, written down 1325 AD and now in the Royal Library at Copenhagen,
• and the Saga itself -- there is the information Wikipedia uses, do a search for Ingi. See the King at pages 141-42. And in English. There is no reference to our poor fellow and the hunt, however. 
• The Northvegr Center at ://www.northvegr.org/
• Magnus Barefoot's Saga, at  ://omacl.org/Heimskringla/barefoot.html/  

3.  This fits the tale of the Bear.

That Magnus Barefoot's Saga specifically mentions Varmaland (now Varmland) in Sweden where there are lots of Widings now, aha, see section 13 of Magnus Barefoot's Saga.  The Swedish King Inge there, had quarreled with another King, the Norwegian King Magnus, about land rights.

• Enter the Wids from the Woods?  Ah, conjecture.  The Saga says, however, that there were also forest-dwellers and forest-settlements in the area, and those people's allegiances were not to the Norwegian Magnus until he rampaged about and plundered and burnt in a persuasive way. That is in the same section 13. King Inge returned and whupped Magnus' men, and the forest-men again were loyal to King Inge. Inge was not to be taken lightly. Magnus' Norwegians made up a ditty about the delay in Inge's getting going: apparently he could barely make it to get on the horse.
  
  

  "The fat-hipped king, with heavy sides,
       Finds he must mount before he rides." 

  . 

  There was a bloody battle, and Magnus claimed victory, then there was a meeting of three kings, from Norway, Sweden and Denmark; and a treaty about boundaries each would accept, and an exchange of guarantees including Inge's daughter to marry Magnus.  Inge is said to be large, stout and dignified, and Magnus gallant and brisk, and the third king, Danish King Eirik, the handsomest.  All were well-spoken. And so they parted. 

Conjecture rules.

Now: there is also a King Inga of Nidaros, and is that Norway?

See old history, The World's Story in Fourteen Volumes, with illustrations; Volume VIII,  about the unification of Norway, Sweden and Denmark, then their separations again, medieval and renaissance, see p 90 at ://books.google.com/books?id=TKhDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=king+inga+sweden&source=bl&ots=jnufqnttRi&sig=76v-hp01frYwa4S-oI6UayE19Xk&hl=en&ei=huJMTInAHcmxngf98KHYCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCwQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Surname, Widing - Widukind. Widing Surname. What Roots. Delving into Saxon King Widukind

 Surnames - 

Roots in Imagination;

And Some History

Widukind, Which and Whose art thou? 

Widing
The Widinga Saga

Wid+ing=Widing. Or not?

For many surnames, there is an easy root.  The name is an occupation, for example.  For others, the name reflects an old language word or legend-real person, still found in place names, sagas, with all the spellings changing over centuries, given evolving written languages, migrations, and whim.

"Widing" fits none of those easy roots so far.  Yet, the name is not uncommon. On imagination, is it related to the name of the heroic Saxon leader, who opposed Charlemagne in the Saxon Wars in the 9th Century, one Widduken, Widdikind, Widdukind, Wittiken, etc. Why not follow that thought.

There are are thousands of Widings currently in the United States (a relative ordered the full list at one point); and who knows how many still in Sweden, including a famous hockey player, Daniel Widing - do a search. So, what is the name?  Many from an area called Varmland, many emigrating through Goteborg on the western coast, but still, where did the name come from.

• Try this. A Widdikind. Widukin. Widukind. Some such. Saxon ruler, migrations of Saxons out of the way of Charlemagne. Charlemagnitude at work. The campaigns of a larger-than-life figure in European history, and the escape of some Saxons to Scandinavia. With the name.  Wid - "wood".  Then the "kind" perhaps from kinder, child, child of the wood?
• The name even bestowed and creating a relationship, in the old custom of Vikings; but not a Swedish King - a Saxon. 
• There was a Widukind von Enger in Old Saxony, about 735-807 -- Charlemagne's era. See this claim at http://www.geni.com/genealogy/people/Widukind-von-Engern/4738000500530080214/.
  Of all this claims of descent from Widukind von Enger are geograhically premature.  There was no Enger in warrior noble Widukind's time. Enger came later. Is that so? See also ://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SAXONY.htm#_Toc155952299/  His remains are supposed to be there, see ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind, but what was there at the time so he could be deemed von Enger.
  
  

From Widukind von Enger to Widing over a thousand years of telescoping linguistics, applying alphabets. Why not. Doesn't matter, but is interesting. The first stop, after Saxony, seems to be Denmark:  where Widukind fled on several occasions when the battlefields against Charlemagne got too hot. Do a search for Widing Denmark and find the name. The roots may not be so unknown. See the "unknown" cop-out at ://www.oneworldtree.com/facts/Widing-family-history.ashx

1.  The Saxon Wars.  In the time of Charlemagne, King Charles (who later was The Charlemagne, and first Holy Roman Emperor) fought the Saxons to the north and northwest of  Europe, to subdue them under his rule and to convert them, and they - fierce fellows - would have none of it.  They would give way, promise to be good, then re-attack - and re-attack. See the account of the struggle and "perfidy" of the Saxons who would never give up, by Charlemagne's own scribe-secretary, Einhard, at p://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/einhard-wars1.html; read the Latin and scroll around at ://www.celtic-twilight.com/charlemagne/einhard/einhard_charlemagne_c8.htm/.  Einhard does not mention the specific name, Widdekind, yet, however.

So Charlemagne and the Saxons fought.  And fought. And fought. At least thirty years they fought. See://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/643237/Widukind/ Danes also considered Saxon and Frisian lands theirs at some points, so there must have been much back and forth of people and names.

2.  Finally Charlemagne prevailed, slaughtered thousands of captured Saxons who had resisted, used poor folks' food stores to support his armies, worsening famines, burning towns, moving entire populations around to break up old allegiances and forge through forced resettlements a new identity as part of the larger European whole, etc. See ://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Widukind_%28Leader%29/.  Saxons during the wars were also pushed back and back, and many went to Scandinavia.

The leader of the Saxons finally capitulated, and Charlemagne magnanimously did not humiliate him, but received him with the respect due a formidable opponent.  Charlemagne still demanded, however, in addition to allegiance, that the Saxon convert to the Christianity in its shape of the time (militant, with a hierarchy entrenching, and the Roman Church itself taking land and property almost at will).  The Saxon Ruler nominally did. Note that the Eastern Christian Church, the Orthodox, had already branched off. Or had it?  Have to check.  The Pope was in Constantinople at the time, not Rome, is that so? So maybe the split had not happened yet.

3.  The Saxon ruler was Widdikind.  Widukind. Wittikind. Widukind. His father was Warnechin (think "Warner" now?).  One site even calls Widukind the first Duke of Saxony, a little pretentious if the Saxons in Germany were a collection of rough tribes then, and not a province with a hierarchical nobility structure.  The area is the old Westphalia, the Old Empire, Das Alte Reich,  before Charlemagne, see ://www.evri.com/person/widukind-0x166b9b/, and he is said to have been a noble there, see the 1911 Encyclopedia site.

The father of the Widukind von Engern in the geni.com sitge is also Warnechin, last name von Engern. So that claimed descendant says.

• Longstanding source material:  The 1912 Catholic Encyclopedia.  See Widukind:

"Saxon leader, and one of the heads of the Westphalian nobility. He was the moving spirit in the struggles of the Saxons for their independence and heathen faith". See ://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15618a.htm/

The site says that in 777 our Widukind fled -- into Denmark. Then, with Charlemagne back in Spain going against the Saracens, Widukind returned to Saxony and it was vengeance time. Insurrection.  Much venting against the church, and when Charlemagne was on his way back (angry!), Widukind was known to be the rallying person.  Then came Charlemagne's slaughter of the Saxons, the thousands, and that solidified Saxon spirit. Widukind again fled to Denmark for safety. Ultimately, however, Charlemagne prevailed (the 30 years of warfare exhausted everyone), and Widukind gave allegiance finally, and was baptized.  He is said to be buried at Enger, near Herford.  The site finds little reliable about him after the baptism: he became a heroic hero of legend, even a saint, a great builder of churches. His gravestone is from the 12th Century, not the 8th or 9th. A reliquary is said to be 9th or 10th, however.Enger did not exist in Widukind's day. That from

We need an opera here:  Widukind in Denmark. And a children's book:  Widukind: The King Who Wouldn't Give Up.

• Jean Bodel, 1165-1210, Troubadour, Song of the Saxons, La Chanson des Saisnes, or La Chanson de Saisine, -- we are trying to find one in English.  Do a search and French. Sigh deeply:  " *** Que mais ceste ne autre ait de m'amor saisine ... "

Bodel, member of Brotherhood of Jugglers, and the Burghers of Arras (The burghers as in Rodin's sculpture? No, those were Calais) authored various epics, narratives, had leprosy but still prepared to go on the 4th Crusade, scroll down to Bodel at ://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://ebooks.unibuc.ro/lls/MihaelaVoicu-LaLiterature/Trouveres.htm&ei=x5czTM2XOcTflgeM2YC_Cw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBsQ7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DBodel%2BChanson%2Bde%2BSaisine%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26rlz%3D1R1GGLL_en%26prmd%3Db


Here is Vol II in French:  La Chanson des Saxons (Saxons? Why use that Germanic form?) at http://books.google.com/books?id=SDIRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=Bodel+Chanson+de+Saisine&source=bl&ots=DaWE4WNEvq&sig=ZuVVwqhvC3k3oVICt-1xUgj7VJk&hl=en&ei=x5czTM2XOcTflgeM2YC_Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false/.

See page 64, in the old French:  Keep looking for Saisne, for the Saxon parts.

" *** Et li Saisne esperonent aval par mi la plaine
Ansamble on joste' prince at duc et domain. ***"

• Meet Guiteckin  - is that an old French spelling for Widukind? See it at the Karlamagnus Saga, The Saga of Charlemagne and his Heroes, by Constance B. Hieatt, Part V, Guitalin the Saxon. How is anybody supposed to research anything when everybody's spelling goes with the linguistics and best efforts of the day.  Now we have to start over with Guitalin. Or Guiteckin.   This book compares various versions of the Charlemagne sagas, and there are several, by different authors, emphasizing different things, etc.  The name also appears as Guiteclin.  And Vitakind. See page 6 for that.
  

• The War of the Saxons is supposed to be at Part I, Chapters 46-47 of the Karlamagnus Saga by Constance B. Hieatt.  See page 6.  The Vitakind spelling occurs apparently mostly in the Volume I? Where is that? This gets confusing.  Is the Google book both volumes?? As you read, remember that   
• That Part V Chapter I about Guitalin (not spelled Vitakind) begins on page 16, Guitalin the Saxon, at Widukind gave allegiance for a time, and was baptized, as we understand it; then took off after Charlemagne again. In the Hieatt book, he ultimately is imprisoned and dies. Synopsis page 3 at ://books.google.com/books?id=tRQ_j83MzJYC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=English+translation+Bodel+Chanson+de+Saisne&source=bl&ots=XOuMPU94PI&sig=fZOJrbR9a8bN2Di8Dv_FE5RsbvE&hl=en&ei=XZwzTL7RF4X6lweTxeW9Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false.
• It goes on and on, no wonder with 30 years of warfare.  Introduction is at pages 6-13; and a Synopsis at pages 1-5. We'll go there.

4.  Are you still with us? We have found another Widukind from Saxony, same era, died in 973, but this one was a Benedictine monk and a chronicler, see ://info-poland.buffalo.edu/classroom/orig/chron.html/  His monastery was at Corvey in Westphalia, Widukind the Chronicler.  One and the same Widukind? The warrior did not die in prison but his conversion "took" and he dedicated himself, etc.  And was an educated man?    Look up Early Saxon Leaders, Family of Widukind, at ://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SAXONY.htm/  It looks like the name Widukind and family thereof was a name of power for two centuries, and Widuchindus rebellis - the one leading all the rebellions against King Charles (Charlemagne).  Wikipedia is always interesting.  See ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind/

Need to look up the Royal Frankish Annals just because it is interesting, but the point, in this Sweden Road Ways, is that Widukind's Saxons went often to Denmark during their campaigns, Saxon populations were pushed into the Netherlands as well as migrated there, and Widing ergo ubiquitus est. But Widukind and wife, Geva, sister of Sigurd, had only one child, a son, Wichbert.  A prolific one.

The chronicler Widukind does seem to be different. See site.  And his Res Gestae Saxonicae. Are Widings from him? Monks in those days went cloistered as adults, so perhaps.  And then oft enjoyed earth's pleasures.  But how would the Widing Thanksgiving Legend of some poor soul saving the King and being rewarded with a Name, fit with a scribe.  Wikipedia on Widukind of Corvey, the Historian, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind_of_Corvey/.; and the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica at ://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Widukind_%28historian%29/.

To be continued:  Widing in the 18th-21st Centuries, harking back in some imaginative or perhaps real (now way to know) Widukind, Vitakind.  Whichever is not the point. Most likely so far:  either no connection at all, and Widing remains with its unknown root; or a telescoping of a common name centuries ago; or an original bestowing of an honor name; a relationship; and people down that line and others who just sought to honor Vitakind's-Widukind's memory, or tap into his prowess by taking the name, whatever.

Perhaps. People seeking noble connections with Widdukind are said to have been unsuccessful, however (is that so?  how about Mr. Geni.Com above?), and they must have applied resources; so any connection between our name and that great one is emulatory. Fine. Why not.

Can you add to our non-knowledge, you Widings out there? We say Widing as in hiding.  Do others say Veeding. Potato potahto.  No reason for research always to be serious.  Recreational research works.